How is Desire is the Root of All Suffering?
Depression healing begins by understanding how desire is the root of all suffering. This exploration starts with discerning the science of wants and needs. In this episode of the Overcome Depression Podcast, Jennifer Stirling-Campbell and Michael Campbell explore the complex relationship between desire and suffering, drawing from the six delusions of Buddhist teachings. They discuss how desire can lead to suffering, especially when we seek security based on things we think we need. Contrastingly, freedom comes when we feel gratitude for what we have, and then align our wants with God’s will for us (which is actually our will! Listen to find out why!) Similar pathways to peace and fulfillment can come from following the Four Noble Truths of Buddhism, using the transformative power of surrendering personal desires for a higher purpose.
What are Needs and wants and how to tell the difference
What are needs and wants and how do we tell the difference between them? According to Dr. Benjamin Hardy:
- Wanting is intrinsically motivated, whereas needing is extrinsically motivated.
- Wanting is based on choosing freedom, while needing is based on seeking security.
- Wanting comes from having an abundance mindset.
- Wanting is creative, whereas needing is reactive.
What are the six delusions in buddhism?
The six delusions in Buddhism are:
#1. Attachment (desire), which leads to the other five delusions. When attachment affects us, the other five delusions are not far behind!
“Desire is hungry and never fulfilled. It is never happy. It causes insatiably wanting more and more. It is subtle and seductive. We don’t even know what is happening. It’s like oil on a cloth, very difficult to remove.“
#2 Anger/Hatred
#3 Pride
#4. Ignorance
#5 Doubt
#6. Wrong Views
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Full Transcript: Episode 37: Desire is the Root of All Suffering
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (00:00)
In Buddhism, they say that desire is the root of all suffering. This had me pondering for literally a year before I could make any sense of this because it just didn’t quite sit right with me. How could even good desires be the root of all suffering? That is what we are going to talk about today.
Zig Ziglar famously said, You can have everything in life you want if you will just help other people get what they want. A lot of wants in this sentence. I think Zig Ziglar is a pretty cool guy. I think most motivational speakers, Tony Robbins, Benjamin Hardy, most life coaches, they talk a lot about pursuing your dreams, moving forward with what you want and so forth. And this isn’t necessarily bad, right? Then we also know that
anticipation of an event is always more intense than the event itself. For example, Christmas. So wanting something, working towards something we want, like my son getting his Talaria. He worked a year so he could buy himself a, electric bike, the Talaria. And once he got the bike, he was actually a little bit He was excited, but he thought he would be more excited.
And it was more exciting almost moving towards that I only need $100 left and just all that excitement work moving up towards actually touching that bike and riding it for the first time. I always felt a little bit let down every year at Christmas because the anticipation of Christmas was so much more exciting than actually opening the presents and then going, Oh, it’s over. though you have all these cool gifts, there’s just something about
the anticipation, which is interesting. And I see that in good ways, but also in some negative ways where some people are constantly looking for that next thing to get that next high, the next new iPhone, then trading in their car for a different one or, I’ll be happy when I dream job. This one isn’t quite what I want. It’s just never quite happy.
And I believe Benjamin Hardy said this, but he said that needing something is unhealthy and makes you a slave. So think about that. Needing it. I need a relationship. Or I need a sugar fix. I need my Pepsi. Well, you didn’t introduce me this time. I’m just magically talking here. I just appeared. Yes.
yeah, desire can be shaped and used, but I think it’s gotta first come from
place. Like where do we form the desire? What gives us the fuel?
at least for me, thing shape your desire is appreciating things that you have right here, right you can start the smallest things.
I am grateful for this pencil. I’m grateful for my car, if you have one or a bike Or even I’m grateful that my car turned on today. I’m grateful for my jacket. I’m grateful for my clothes. because if you’re grateful for what you have now and you can appreciate the things that you do have.
You’re not gonna be in a state of need where you’re desiring things that truly gonna serve you. That’s an endless pit. I mean, you have all the money in the world
and how many people do we hear of that they’re billionaires, millionaires or whatever, they’re still trying to get that being a billionaire or a millionaire is a bad thing. I just think it can get consuming where almost like this game of
beating everybody else or staying at the never been there, so I don’t really know.
again, needing something is unhealthy and makes you a slave. But wanting something can be a powerful and can make you free to choose. So needing something, it’s almost like addiction. Like it’ll cause you to impulsively make choices that maybe aren’t the best. Whereas wanting something, something good, lead you to some choices that could
make you better than you are right now. Like wanting to overcome depression, for example. can be absolutely powerful. number one here, is intrinsically motivated, whereas needing is extrinsically motivated. Number two, and these are all notes I got from Benjamin Hardy, wanting is based on choosing freedom, whereas needing is based on seeking security. So those with a lack mindset.
and making choices based on fear.
mentioned the choice. we in a place Are we in place of vitriol, pent emotion?
Do we feel left out? I don’t buy these clothes or if I don’t get this program or if I don’t have this phone, will think ABC or if I enough to get a better car, people will make fun of me. Anger. Yeah. can be motivated by anger, but
that you attain that motivation to be somewhat empty and it’s gonna leave you chasing for more fruit. kind of breeds that way. But when you step back into a place of gratitude. Things come to you, Exactly. It’s in this abundant mindset where
you almost expect the blessings and they just come. And I feel like that’s still something I’m working on that I feel like I struggle sometimes with this scarcity, this fear mindset of, ⁓ what if I had all this money? Would it change me? thoughts like that, or so I can just make enough to get by and then that’s it. And it always works our minds are If accept what the Lord wants for us,
It is very abundant. I think he wants us to have abundance. we’re feeling that need, I think it pushes it away. At least it’s almost like it could be more like dirty money versus wanting it for the right purposes to to your family, service to others, consecrating everything that we make to God, which is what I’m gonna get more into with the desires, the root of all suffering and kind of how that all wraps in together.
Where’s that desire coming from? that’s why I mean, well, all fear comes from darkness. Yeah. But you pull back gratitude and it’s a place of light and it’s a space rather than those desires that you are chasing, you stop
chasing them. And you have appreciation for everything that’s around you. like you said, things that you need.
God is aware, we don’t need to be worried about what we need, because He’ll give it to us automatically. Yeah, things. Yeah. was talking to my atheist friend about this and
I’m talking to him about some of these things, if I mention God, kind of glazes over at that point. He just like tunes out and it’s like falling on deaf when I use things like gratitude,
feels very open. It’s just openness. Like, yes, and thank you. But
It’s made possible that’s what gives it so much power,
they’ve literally been able to scientifically prove that just a person sitting in a room in a state of gratitude can neutralize negative emotions from miles around. Like literally. Because the negative emotions, while they have their own frequency, are not very powerful ones. it doesn’t take much of one to have an impact, but gratitude can just outstim.
Like easily, so pushing away all that is not needful in your life, the things you don’t really need or want that maybe you think you do, just through gratitude alone and love of God and neighbor and self. You put those two together, you’re unstoppable. You can have everything you’ve ever needed or wanted trying so hard.
So three is wanting comes from having an abundance mindset, whereas needing comes from having a scarcity mindset. Four is wanting is creative and we are creators. gods and embryo, right? Whereas needing is reactive. That is
So true. So when you think of depression and anxiety, a very reactive mindset. You’re constantly looking anything to help you feel that’s how I was. couldn’t rest, couldn’t get a break. And wanting allows that mind to quiet enough to where you can think in terms of progress and innovation and productive.
You can organize the steps to get to where you need to go. Yeah. Isn’t that ironic that slowing down could get you to someplace faster? That’s my world. Slow and steady wins the race. That’s Mike. But you’re good at it. So I’m the running around with a chicken’s head cut off sometimes person, but I do get a lot done.
Not always the needful things, but have to mention, are people, manifestors, human design. I have a son who’s one of them, 8%. It’s not a lot. These are the people that your life coaches are for the most part talking to.
The go get it, make it happen. That works for them. For the rest of us, it works usually better to wait to respond to stimulus coming at you. So you’re not trying to make it you have the thought, you know, kind of what you’re going for. And then when it comes, recognize it when it shows up. Well, and some people playing defense quite a
the world’s throwing everything in the kitchen sink at you, how do you go from, survival mode? do you flip that? I say breath and prayer. You know, take a slow, deep breath. Pray throughout the day, pray always.
It doesn’t just say pray always because it means pray sometimes or just have a prayer kind of in your I think it means what it says it means. Pray all the time. Pray all the time. Talk to God on a regular basis. Keep connected because as soon as you disconnect, chaos. mean, at least for I’m feeling disconnected, distracted. everywhere, not getting a lot done.
I’m not balanced at all. And even though I’m running around, I’m getting a lot less done than I went on a day when I’m connected and more gracefully, if you will, through my day. For example, I was driving my kids to school one day and realized that I was running out of gas. I felt really stupid.
And we were in the neighborhood still, we were far from my house that I couldn’t just run home and get a gas can. The spirit told me that house, but I ignored the spirit because house had no lawn and I thought, surely they won’t have a lawn mower, which means they probably won’t have a gas can. I tried several of their houses, no one was home and finally knocked on the door that I’d inspired to knock on first and they were home. They offered me gas.
I filled it up and we went on our way and it didn’t take me longer than 10 minutes to recover from that. even though was like, dang it, I can’t believe I ran out of It could have been a lot worse if no one had been home. smooth despite that. Whereas I think if I’d been more discombobulated, I may have gone down a different road where nobody was home and I would
calling on my can bring me some It could have taken me an hour or two or three. panic. make the wrong choices in a We end up in the right place when we’re calm. It takes intentional training, focus, meditation moments of panic
controlled responses. Sometimes it’s muscle memory and you just start doing the right moves based on You don’t want to pilot, you know,
Your engines on fire. You don’t want them to panic, right? You want them cool as a cucumber all the way to the ground make better choices when your brain isn’t going to through fight or flight for sure. Which a lot of us are when you’re running like chicken with a Ted cutoff, fight or flight. Your brain is not functioning on all four cylinders. And I can attest to that on those days.
You slow it down intentionally and things start just going better and that grateful place. It’s like the matrix. If you ever watched see the bullets flying at you and you slow them down and then you can like move around them. I like that analogy. Speaking of that,
people don’t often get what they want because they’re too busy seeking for what they believe they need, like this frantic, right?
Or what society says they should have.
There are two core types of freedom. Freedom from, which is externally escaping what you don’t want, or freedom to, which is internally committing to and courageously choosing what you do
going to say a few things about the life I wanted. wanted to own my home. I wanted to have children and be home with them. I wanted to find resources that would allow me to work from home. I wanted to do this podcast. I wanted to be married to Mike. I wanted land so I could have goats on it. I have all of these things.
I wanted a sauna. I got that too. I’m not rich. I’m not rich. But all of these that I have come to me in miraculous ways. Every single one of them. Every single one of them.
also wanted a person of integrity. Like in all that I do, that’s always been kind of at the forefront being. That’s how I operate. Every choice I make, is this right? something I desire very much.
is to be close to God. takes practice. It does. It doesn’t come always naturally, for sure. And sometimes I stray, I have to get back to that; Like, Remember, oh yeah, that is what I want. Yeah, that’s right. I do want to follow God. And the thing is that He wants what I want. literally.
If I think I want something and it’s not what God wants for me, it’s not gonna be good. I’m not gonna be happy when I get there. That has been the case every single time. Whether it was a guy, you know, I really want this relationship with this guy and he’d end up being terrible for me and I just wouldn’t listen, until I found out the hard way. Yeah. pretty dark places and it’s so interesting.
when I look
God was there.
and I didn’t have a clue.
And I had no idea but he was there.
I can look back on it now.
and see the time completely to presence.
Do think we do that because feel shameful or guilty or like we don’t deserve it or that I think a part of me thought that if a big part, if he won’t heal my depression, Idoubted my ability, my faith, my worthiness. It must not be enough. Or maybe this is just.
me being punished for some doing something wrong or is this just part of the endured to the end thing desiring? What are we desiring? are my desires going for the wrong things? And they were, quite frankly. The things I wanted when I was depressed not conducive to happiness. They weren’t. And my desires changed a lot when I started to heal, which is interesting because I became
a completely different person throughout that healing, I couldn’t see that at the time I was depressed. I couldn’t understand. Interesting desire kind of out the window the helm, literally, and he lends you
his eyes.
for a moment.
The only thing matters in that moment
your relationship with Him and how much love you feel.
That gives you hope.
And I think hope is
substitute
desire. what was Christ’s desire? It was save us. That’s what He wanted. And I listened to something today about Easter and the Atonement and he mentioned, I never thought of this before, fact
that he not only the pains, all of our pains and sorrows, but that he descended below them, like as if that wasn’t bad enough. descended below, like went to the depths of we’ve or felt, I never really quite saw that for what it was, that He so badly
to us that opportunity to heal That’s what He wanted. was His whole driving motive on this earth was to serve His father to serve us.
And I’m was human, He experienced those temptations, but that was what his core driverswere, his value system, I would say, his choices. It’s a righteous desire is what it is.
just gonna read this. Four Noble Truths Desires the Root of All imaquarius.com. I did write this. It’s probably the best article I’ve ever written. The Four Noble Truths.
which are the foundation of Buddhism, stress that desire is the root of all suffering. I love Buddhist writings because they’re like riddles and challenge the way I think. For example, I’ve spent the past few years contemplating the words desire is the root of all suffering. And I say that, mean I spent a few years contemplating desire is the root of all suffering. I just, I didn’t get it.
I generally pride myself in my ability to reason, but the notion of all desire causing suffering had me confuttled. When I first heard the words, they felt mostly true, but I still wondered.
Is desire equal suffering always true or mostly true true or what am I missing here? What about righteous desires? Righteous desires don’t necessarily cause suffering or do they? This week, I was again pondering on whether desire is the root of all suffering when I had one of those epic, Eureka! moments. Yes, desire is the root of all suffering, I realized. Yet all through primary, growing up, I was taught that we don’t have to suffer if we repent.
So how does that even work? And repent of what? The answer: Our suffering or need to repent comes from putting our own will, even our righteous desires, above God’s will. Alternatively, life becomes instantly easier once we let God that will power for us.
Once we understand from a Christian perspective, or otherwise, if you’re not Christian, how the Four Noble Truths work, it is easy to understand why desire is the root of all suffering. In actuality, it makes absolute and complete sense. Pain is part of life, but there is a difference between pain and suffering, and that difference is a big difference. As Christians, many of us were taught that when our will or desire is God’s will, our will is swallowed up, literally swallowed up in His.
In other words, we no longer have one. Our will is gone. God’s will be done. But doesn’t that mean we give up on we want and who we are? Nope. Quite the contrary. When we choose to turn our desires and suffering over to God, which is what the Christian Atonement is all about, our carnal desires essentially become nullified and only God’s desire remains. We choose through our agency to stop resisting God’s plan for us. Again, through that open gratitude,
letting things His plan is our best life. Suffering diminishes because there is no expectation, only perfect trust. There is no anxiety or stress, only perfect love. And we no longer worry because we know that God is perfect. God’s plan for us is perfect, and He desires what is best for us. In other words, He’s got this, and He’s got us. God’s will
is the only thing that matters to us, it creates perfect hope. In scriptural terms, perfect hope leaves no room for worry or expectation, which is what Mike just mentioned. Rather, having perfect hope is to know. ourselves to God’s will also creates perfect peace, which will naturally result, eventually, in creating a perfectly balanced, harmonious soul. This process, in which we let go of our own will, or lose ourselves in service to God,
is, ironically, how we find ourselves. Luke 9: 24-25 says, “For whosoever will save his life shall lose it. But whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it. For what is a man advantaged if he gain the whole world and lose himself?”
In essence, surrendering our own desire to God’s will is the exact opposite of giving up our identity because we are choosing to trust the Master Creator, who knows exactly who we are. Through His personalized, refining process for us, all impurities, false identities, and callousness fall away. The result? A magnificent, glorious, angelic being rivaling our past selves in startling contrast. In layman’s terms, we will have become the best version of ourselves.
In our present imperfect condition, only God knows entirely what that is and what exactly that will take.
In summary, I now believe without a doubt that desire is the root of all suffering. So, when I find myself feeling out of balance, stressed, or not myself, I seek to align myself as best as I can to God’s will again. This often begins with resolute and determined prayer, a moment of decision, a willingness to see the truth, whatever that may be, and committing to do whatever God tells me to do. In this holy space, true freedom from suffering can be found.
And then, is by Benjamin Hardy too. a single moment, a person can choose to change everything. Change doesn’t have to take a long time. It happens the instant we decide.
Buddhist negative minds were really interesting. I studied these a little bit as I was trying to understand. Number one is desire is hungry and never fulfilled. It is never happy. It causes insatiably wanting more and more. It is subtle and seductive. We don’t even know what is happening. It’s like oil on a cloth, very difficult to remove. of course this is being translated from another language.
It is one of the six delusions, and when it affects us, then the other readily there close behind to affect us too. So desire is kind of at the root of all the other problems, is what he’s there saying. We have imprints from many experiences, including past lives, And then three is pride, four is ignorance, five is doubt, and six is wrong views.
Believing in lies, I would say, is what that means. Right, desire as a whole
that your everything falls under your will. But when you back up to God’s will, the only righteous desire you That’s the only real direction at that point. Well, there’s lots of directions and I think there’s good, better and best.
You can make things really difficult for yourself do things the hard do it the slow, steady, easy way. You step back and you look at it. Tortoise in the hare. Yeah. do it right and you do it once. we talked about that in
number 23 I think or 24 Work smarter not harder. Yeah, I talk about a simple usually it’s the simple things
most truth. overcomplicate it. Yeah, you know, don’t need to reinvent the wheel; the wheel is a simple thing. I think that was so hard for me though growing up. I wanted answers simple things I was learning at church weren’t fixing
things that we have to on a deeper healing level
or
the simple thing
in a box there’s a lot of things we don’t understand because oversimplifying it and then we’re
closed off to alternative interpretation whatsoever think we something. Oversimplification can be just as bad things. You get trapped in your own get paralyzed for sure and not move and not take
of God’s will is faith. The only way we can access his will is through faith. is an action word. If you get caught in the thinking phase and not action part, then you’re going to fall a little short. Faith is also a state of being.
So I think sometimes the answer is to just wait, like don’t do anything. requires a decision going to have the discipline to not go and do all these things that I feel like I need to do or have to do Making the decision and then doing that, whatever that Even if it’s sitting for a while. Yeah, if it is sitting,
that even that in and of itself is an action. it’s not just sitting for the sake of sitting. You feel like this is what I need to be doing right sometimes that might be the hardest thing to do. Oh, for me? Yeah. I like to take action and fix Whe I’m told to wait, that’s a challenge.
I can see that. You’re like, I know. I no longer struggle with depression, but I still struggle to ⁓
find complete balance and peace all of the time. So work in progress again. that a crumb on the floor? Right. Yeah. ⁓ no. that a dish in the sink? Is that God’s will? I read a book.
written by a Buddhist monk that specifically said leaving a dish in the kitchen sink be detrimental to your sleep because you’d be thinking about that dish in the sink all night. And that’s kind of how it works for me. I’m not good at just putting it out of my mind. I go to bed and I sleep so good. up, tell your wife starts cleaning the dish that you left in the sink at midnight. But when I wake up the next morning what happens?
I’m like, ⁓ the dishes in the sink from last night. I guess I’ll clean it. No sleep Good for What a talent.
I don’t think it’s necessarily bad to desire things, but when our desires are in alignment with God, we know. You feel that light that yes, and you’re doing exactly what you need to be doing. And there’s a difference again, between excitement of I’m excited about this. frantic versus that peace that accompanies the right thing.
I don’t know how to describe it other than for me, it’s just this entire body feeling and just knowing that is, it just is. And it’s God’s will speaking to me that yes, this is exactly what I want for you. I am excited for
And don’t forget what you felt because sometimes Satan likes to you question you felt you knew derail you or make you go somewhere else. Maybe that wasn’t the thing. Maybe I was confused. Maybe just being desire in there. You’ve got out your own and in a place of peace,
you answer, it’s that still small voice.
can be identified because there’s only one voice out there that speaks to you that way.
That voice is very specific. The adversary tries, but he can’t get to that frequency. No, he can’t. And I to say to those struggle with depression, it’s pretty dang hard when you’re in it to feel that peace. But one step at a time, trust
as you heal and as you follow this program you get the workbook you start working through the stuff start with little things but guaranteed when you feel that when you feel it and you make a decision you move it’ll be right 100 yeah well obstacles are not doesn’t necessarily mean it’s gonna be easy it just means
It’s right. And it’ll be worth it. Because I can tell you, the experiences I had working through and healing all the years of depression I felt, and then every bit of progress I made was wrought with struggle at the beginning. It was just resistance, resistance, resistance. I didn’t want to do it. But I made myself do it. And it was worth it.
I got that When I got that confirmation, I remember crying when I realized I was going to need to do a cleanse, just sobbing. I don’t want to do it. But I got that confirmation that this is what you need to do and it’s going to be OK. It was not easy. And I am not saying that anyone listening needs to do a cleanse necessarily. It might not be your thing the moment. Slow and steady is often
a good way to go. Mine was Crash and Burn style, It’s never easy to look ugly within. Yeah, just remember that the ugly, it’s just stuff that got put on top of you. You start uncovering it and nothing but underneath. I promise. No matter how dark you feel, no matter what you’ve done, you are absolutely perfect.
Absolutely perfect. You’ve just got some things to uncover and it’s okay. It’s part of the journey. That’s part of the life experience. It’s part of the plan. Amen. So don’t lose hope. Don’t get discouraged. I’ve been there. Mike’s been there. Many people have been there. Desire is the root of all suffering. Kinda. Unless you align your to the light. we’ll leave you with that until next time.
We’ll see you later.
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