Is misinformation, disinformation, or malformation fueling chronic depression? Contrary to public opinion, fact-checking may not provide the truth as accurately as your intuition can. In this powerful episode of the Overcome Depression Podcast, Jennifer Stirling-Campbell and John dive into how mass formation, societal narratives, and modern technology can distort our perception of reality — and worsen mental health. Learn why freedom is essential for well-being, how isolation impacts our mental state, and why questioning our own beliefs and finding the truth behind the lies we believe may be the key to overcoming depression once and for all.
If you are craving peace and clarity in a world of noise and confusion, this episode is for you!
This Episode of the Overcome Depression Podcast is for You If You Want to Learn:
- Why freedom is critical for mental health and emotional resilience.
- How mass formation and psychological manipulation shape societal beliefs — and how to resist it.
- The impact of technology and isolation on depression and society at large.
- How questioning your own beliefs can lead to powerful personal and spiritual clarity.
- Why living by truth, not lies, is essential to overcoming depression.
- How your individual voice and responsibility can influence broader societal change.
“Let the lie come into the world and even reign supreme, but not through me.”
Alexander Solzhenitsyn
Formula for mass formation
This is the formula necessary for mass formation to occur:
- People feel isolated
- People feel no purpose
- Floating anxiety and social discontent
- Frustration and aggression
When mass formation begins to occur….
When mass formation begins to occur (and this can be seen over and over and over again throughout history!) up to 30% of the population feels extremely strong about an agenda behind the mass formation and backs it 100%. They are an extremely LOUD group of people, giving themselves and others in society the illusion that they are the majority. Totalitarian states (and eventually dictatorship) are often the result of this trend.
What is Totalitarianism?
Comes from the masses/society itself rather than from a leader, regards all aspects of life as political, and “believes” that everything must be subject to the ruling/popular ideology. When one goes against this ideology, they are socially punished. Alternatively, when one does something that supports the ideology, they are socially rewarded. This “recipe” is the perfect environment for the “right” dictator to come in, say the right things to win over the hearts of the people suffering, and take over.
We Are Creeping Toward Totalitarianism
Characteristics of mass formation
Characteristics of the “30%” group that forms during mass formation include:
- Radical intolerance of anyone who speaks out against them and, in the last stage of mass formation, they seek to destroy everyone who is not going with the masses and they will move forward as if it is ethically right and moral to do so.
- Blindness to anything that is against what the group believes in (tunnel vision).
- Loss of any sense of personal interest. In other words, people are willing to sacrifice their own interests for the societal goals and interest (very odd).
Other Groups that Form During Mass Formation
- 5% of the population vocally and adamantly disagrees with the agenda and beliefs of the 30%. If they analyze the situation correctly, this “loud” 5% group can (and has, historically, many times) prevent totalitarianism and dictatorships from taking root, eventually suppressing the cries of the 30% with reason and truth. However…if the situation is analyzed poorly, the 65% (described below) eventually believe and join the 30%, and totalitarianism–followed by dictatorship–eventually prevails.
- 65% of the population just wants to “make peace,” and desires to comply with the demands of the 30% in order to “shut them up.” They greatly resent those from the 5% group who are unwilling to stop dissenting against the agenda of the 30% because, in their minds, peace can not ensue until the 5% stop “fighting” or “causing ripples.”
Want to Heal Faster?? Get the Overcome Depression Workbook!
Get The Overcome Depression Workbook for each #Chapter of the Overcome Depression Podcast and maximize your healing power!
Full Transcript for episode 48: Depression Fuel: Disinformation and the Lies We Believe
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (00:00)
the people who are struggling with depression who want to get out. You have to get to a place of more clarity, more peace. It’s not just about you, is what I’m saying. This fight for your mental health
The world is depending on it. The world is depending on you to be okay, to be sane, have peace, so that you can be the one fighting for the truth. In whatever way that looks like. it could be quiet. It could be soft. But not complacent. Not numb. Not drugged up. Okay?
Anyone who knows me at all knows that freedom is of paramount importance to me. And I believe very strongly lies drag us slowly or quickly captivity, which is why I despise them very, very, very much. or any mental disorder for that matter, is built on a foundation of many, many lies. The lies that we believe about ourselves, the lies we believe about the world around us, about God.
about everything. and layers usually of lies depression that we feel. if you’re listening to the Overcome podcast to become a better person or because you struggle with depression or someone who struggles with depression, you are in the right If you are living a miserable life you know someone who’s living a miserable life, are these kind of people are neck deep in lies and you’re not alone.
take a look at Western society, in the United States, and you will find that around 20% of our population is clinically diagnosed with depression and around diagnosed with anxiety. Probably overlap there as well. So collectively, we aren’t really doing so well. That’s one in five people. not everyone that’s getting diagnosed either. begs the question, is our society pushing lies we are collectively propagating?
and believing in that is creating such a society. And what are these lies? How do we recognize and resist them? Today, are going to be taking deep dive into definition and psychology of mass formation. And I asked John, who’s with us today, he had ever heard of mass formation, had not heard of it either couple months ago. So I’m going to of you, including John, mass formation lesson today.
John (02:11)
I am not familiar with it. So yeah
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (02:19)
I learned this information from a brilliant professor from Belgium. And he is expert has done many, many, many studies, and all kinds of things mass formation and how it happens, the psychology behind I’m going to He was on the Aubrey Marcus show as well as
Tucker Carlson show, Tucker Carlson show, as well as many others, but these were the two that I looked at and I’ll put these two interviews the description. here we go. Mass formation is a psychological process doesn’t necessitate some evil intent or powerful cabal. It’s a psychological process that is difficult to resist.
unless you are aware of it. on to explain how does this formation psychosis happen. And calls it kind of a hypnosis, is interesting because you think about being hypnotized, you’re doing willingly, right, you’re in front of a guru who usually has some kind of
or something that he’s having you focus on and saying you’re getting very sleepy. And the focus that clock. And he said hypnosis that societal wide, can be very much like the focus is so and you’re focused so solely on one thing that it blinds you to everything else going you. So the people who are not are going, what in the heck is going on?
Why are people falling into this? I don’t get it. This is the heck are they doing? If Nazi Germany, what the heck were they Right? Like how could people do this? is why.
So there’s certain conditions that need to be met for this mass psychosis to The most important condition must be met is that a lot people feel socially isolated and disconnected others. And what makes this especially interesting in our time is study from American Sociological Review, I believe it was in 2020, said that 25% of people, this is in the United said that they didn’t have a
That’s really sad. a big number that sort of ages 18 to lonelier than any other US demographic in our current society, which is very odd because in every society prior to this as far as I am aware whenever they’ve done studies like this, like who feels it’s usually people over who’ve lost spouses, people who are older.
And right now it’s this younger generation that’s feeling the most lonely of any age you can make conjectures why, assume maybe lack of connection. I don’t see my kids even going out as much as I did when I was a kid. on their phones talking via text.
even a phone call can do better than that, but most of us don’t even make phone calls anymore. The other thing that has to be place for this psychosis to happen, again, the first is that people feel very lonely. second is that a lot people in society are experiencing life as meaningless or senseless. of meaning in of meaning at home, of meaning in their relationships.
They’re just not feeling a lot of purpose in their And was study recently that asked, people about their satisfaction of work. one of the questions was, how many of you feel like you’re making a difference, work has meaning? And 50 % said no. That’s a pretty big number. Number the first is lonely,
of meaning in life purpose. The kind a result of one and two, a society there’s a lot of free-floating anxiety and social discontent. So floating anxiety and social discontent. The people just aren’t happy the way things are going, fears of the future, the we see a lot of that.
Number four is a lot of free-floating frustration and aggression. you see that coming out in social media in ugly ways. Again, because I think for years, we’ve about this in previous episodes, but for years and years and years, been keep it together. Like pull yourself together, put on a good face, don’t feel wasting time and energy and you’re inconveniencing me and others. and it’s
We’ve taught ourselves to just be okay all the time. When you’re in back of a computer no one’s around we suddenly had this outflux of emotions we’re seeing in people’s media posts because they’re angry or distressed or is wrong people feel safer behind that computer screen and we’ve been holding it in so again, isolated.
Number two, purpose. Number three and four, anxiety frustration and you see that in our society,
John (06:58)
I see all four and then some.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (06:59)
Yeah, quite a bit.
that can happen any time in any society, but I been kind of at peak a while.
John (07:07)
Yeah. also of this is dependent upon, lies world tells us that we And
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (07:14)
Right.
John (07:16)
One of the examples is we said, technology is a good thing allowing everyone to communicate different parts of the world simultaneously email, via internet. was going to bring people closer together when in reality on one hand the scenes
It was people out of the personal people began to lose concept or the ability to facial changes or changes come along with that whole concept ⁓
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (07:52)
Would you
say that we more acquaintances now through that medium? Like the more friends the better. You friends on your spread between these 2,000 people,
John (08:03)
It became over if you look societies technology, and I’m only on technology just one of the examples, all the communities were small towns. know, even the cities up from small community, a small town.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (08:06)
Mm-hmm.
John (08:23)
even then when you have a city you had which were small of people knew everybody. So you could literally up in a town, knew everybody there was just a were able to ⁓
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (08:40)
I would also say
kind of have its own culture everyone in the world kind of becoming this mesh pot of copying what everybody else is doing. we’re quite as different as we once were.
John (08:46)
definitely, definitely.
And, and
that’s a push of world at large. You know, it’s the push of these companies, the tech giants, we call them, the media or however you want to say they’re all looking at what, material wealth. that’s how they things. that’s one of the keys to through
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (08:59)
Right?
John (09:17)
even if it’s meant to be harmful, it still occurs. one of the things I wanted to mention, because some people might be listening to this they might be no way anyone could me. no way anyone can me a is the truth.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (09:21)
be. Yeah.
John (09:39)
will tell you that’s of ballarchy opinion number one you could actually think about that don’t want to think is money in your only has value we Want it to have value.
in reality, money have any real meaning beyond what that it has.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (10:05)
not backed
John (10:06)
we’re told what it’s worth, moment no longer lie that it is, when everything crashes
When you consider that items that we use for silver
create money out of go around to everybody in a country
size of the United States. There’s just not enough of
that’s why you have what’s why people generally as new token of
But that’s why…
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (10:39)
that’s where we’re at
right now if lies are just not So you got go way way way back? where started we’re not gonna talk about it you’re there’s a foundation builds all of this that good.
John (10:57)
that’s a really topic in itself. I, I only wanted people say, I won’t fall for the lie. I will never accept lie.
Well, do.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (11:07)
Most
I every- I don’t think there’s any of us who don’t believe in some lies. we’re not perfect. If we were perfect, wouldn’t believe in a single that would be us perfect. Like, you have any problem whatsoever, lies beneath issue that you’re struggling with, that you still believe. Period.
John (11:08)
It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s…
Yeah.
Growing up, there was of my life I what was on my mind and I wouldn’t sugarcoat anything.
learned very quickly that.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (11:40)
not always very nice.
So let’s go a little deeper with What you are thinking and saying not necessarily the truth. just saying what’s on your So if if you get really with it, the truth the love and perfection This is how I feel is not necessarily the truth.
tempering our our lusts, our feelings different than we need to find a safe space process through those things so that we can see the truth ultimately you have to get to the way that you’re see the truth.
And in the process, it doesn’t mean that you just blab all over everybody about the way that you feel, the thoughts in your head, which are not necessarily completely true. There might be an aspect of it that is, but if love isn’t backing what you’re saying, there’s element of truth and an element of falsehood. And that’s what usually gets us into trouble, is those half truth, half lies.
John (12:19)
Yeah.
right? And of wisdom is to recognize the truth is not only from your perspective but also to different people see the truth differently. It all depends on things that they’ve been told, things that they have learned
One of the ways that we grow is to accept the fact that your truth might not accurate; it a falsehood that you’ve only grown to accept that’s true. Another good example of is some fool polygraph detectors which lies and subconsciously they
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (13:09)
Mm-hmm.
John (13:12)
literally what they are saying is the truth. literally it. So even if you know that it’s not the truth, that doesn’t change the fact that the other person might think it’s truth. And you have to
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (13:16)
Mm-hmm.
Isn’t that interesting though?
you’re not willing to question some of the beliefs that you have, you very solid. yeah, this is how it is. And really think that if you’re not willing to tune into a higher power and really question those challenging your own beliefs. can be really scary, especially for the religious, because you’re like, why would I do that? I might get deceived.
John (13:44)
Yeah.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (13:48)
you’re already deceived, you’ve got to start looking harder, not in a way to disprove truth, but to bring out the truth and leave the darkness behind.
John (13:57)
Right. And if you want to step into the religious aspect, you can even look at the way Jesus taught. taught through parables and he taught through questions. Who do you say that I am? What have you heard? not that he was denying the truth, but he wanted us think.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (14:10)
Mm.
John (14:16)
for ourselves, to question ourselves, to question our own thoughts in order to discover actual truth that lies within heart.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (14:28)
Yeah, which is why text is so weird. You can it the totally wrong way you receive a text in the wrong, tone of voice in your mind as you’re reading it. And they’re like, my gosh, I didn’t mean that at all because they just aren’t really good at diction. So even if you hear truth,
John (14:29)
And again.
Yes.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (14:45)
it’s not always going to register correctly, which is why I think so of system can sometimes be confused and think that this is the way it is because something at they internalized it, but they didn’t quite get the point of it or they didn’t get the spirit of it, because maybe they had never been loved and they don’t know how to receive it in that way. the love
behind how you say something out loud, you can say one sentence in a hundred different ways and it’ll come across in a hundred different ways. things you can do to clear and cleanse your voice therapies if there’s, angst behind it and can even be the sense of in a person’s voice that you can just hear and not want to listen to anything they say.
John (15:27)
you tune them out exactly. On the last podcast, we talked about how much your eyes and your senses register at all times. there are so many a change a person blinks, the rays of a cheek.
the shifting of a mouth muscle, just all these real subtle people never pick up on, but subconsciously your eyes or senses do and they’re able to register this and analyze it as part of the emotional response, as part of the intellectual response. And it makes the mannerisms of a person make a big, big
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (16:04)
Mm-hmm.
John (16:09)
deal. And you do lose that with texting.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (16:10)
Which is why interaction with real people is
important. Yeah. And I think that we can be taken advantage of by people who maybe don’t have our best interests, or just fall into bad patterns because of the society we’re in that is creating this of connection. So it’s not necessarily anybody behind it, but Satan himself. There’s necessarily, again, like a cabal or a
John (16:17)
Yeah.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (16:35)
a leader that’s pushing an agenda, which I’m not discounting that these things happen or are happening, but that sometimes it’s just the society itself creating this. with mass formation again those conditions of loneliness, of feeling lack of purpose, and a lot of frustration and anxiety.
you of that in a society conditions are in place. mass formation, which is mentality, kind of, so strong that all it takes is a certain kind leader or idea control this mass.
and get them to give up their freedom in exchange for the idea or the promises. And we aren’t talking about a dictatorship here necessarily, this does lead to dictatorship in most cases. And I want to define what a dictatorship is, which is people are so scared of the dictator, the his control that people will just listen or secretly not it’s scary.
totalitarianism, which is usually what the mass formation leads to, is quite different. It comes from the masses itself, from the society itself. And what happens is
Totalitarianism regards all of life as political. Now think about how that might apply to some of the thoughts or ideas or feelings that people are having right now about how the world should be. Like everything in life is political, It should be controlled.
Everything must be subject to the ruling ideology. And again, this doesn’t have to come from one person or even a political party or a ruler. This can come from the masses itself. What happens someone against the popular opinion social media? Ooh, they get butchered a lot of the time, right? Ooh, butchered.
or censored or deplatformed. Or perhaps, look at this. We have a lot of ⁓ algorithms out there and a lot of influencers who want followers and who want to make a living doing this. The algorithm will certain behaviors, certain things that are popular. And so without what they’re doing necessarily, a lot of these influencers
start doing what the algorithm wants because it gives them rewards terms of more attention, more views, more followers. I mean, just think about Even if you don’t know that’s happening, but feeling this because getting more attention from this post you did, and then you more in direction. right?
So that’s totalitarianism in a nutshell. politics enshrines of the life in a totalitarianism society. the reality, so this is important, the reality or the subjective truth is determined by that political structure. If you go against that reality, you will be punished.
Any comments, John?
John (19:25)
As I take a drink. Yeah, thank you.
one thing comes to mind when you talk is I think Hitler and a lot of people think of him as a tyrant, but before that he was a political candidate and phenomenal speaker.
He always was able to relate to different people. He convinced people to his side. he was very good at mobilizing masses and using emotion.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (19:58)
getting people excited or
John (20:00)
you connect with people on an emotional level, things happen. People begin to trust. but when you have people that are isolated, with the mass formation that Jennifer was talking about, when you have people that are in that condition, they want to feel validation.
They want to feel acceptance. They want to feel part of something. They want something to give their life a purpose. They want motive to get up the next day, a reason. And when you have someone that is very good at connecting on an emotional level, that’s why these mass movements happen. That’s why these large groups,
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (20:25)
Mm-hmm.
John (20:41)
begin to adhere to a single leader. And typically that leader a great speaker. I’ve read Mein Kampf people will be like, Oh no, must follow those beliefs. No, it means read stories.
And I find that just fascinating at how well and the words that they said and how they could. So if you go about it with an understanding, as one of my teachers told me is like, if you understand the words of your enemy, you will be successful. And one of my favorite generals Patton.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (20:59)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
John (21:15)
in World War he was going up against the Desert Fox gave him first defeat Patton stood on his tank and he says, I read your book and that’s exactly how he beat him. He read his book. He understood how he thought.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (21:31)
Mm-hmm.
John (21:35)
he was able to overcome. So that’s why I was like to say, have to have an educated mind just be aware of things and just to be aware of different perspectives. And if you are, then you can use your own judgments.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (21:43)
Yeah.
saying a prayer before you start. Help me to see this for what it is. just, no bias whatsoever. Help me to see this for what it is. truths from the lies and to wisdom from it. You can approach it that way. this
John (21:54)
Right.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (22:03)
what I’m about to tell
the
part of this
it’s pretty it’s pretty cool.
John (22:07)
ooo, okay
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (22:09)
And you can see it in recent times how this might have played out. So when mass formation begins to occur, again, you’ve these lonely people that are rallying behind a cause. They feel purpose, right? So blinded by this purpose that people on the outside looking in are going, this is crazy. Why are they doing this? Why do they believe this? Why are they giving everything up to serve this?
So when this starts to happen, 30%, usually not more than 30%, sometimes it’s less. And this is historically, this is coming again from Matthias Desmet. And he’s noticed these patterns, societally for centuries, like he’s looked at a lot especially recent times. We’re talking, 100 very much
in favor of whatever the agenda or the ideology or the idea is. religiously dedicated to it and very, very, very loud. Very loud. There’s another after that who care that much about the idea but they just
They don’t want to make people angry. Yeah, let’s them what they want so they’ll stop screaming. Everybody just be nice, okay? It’s not a big deal. fine, I guess. about half of those people are slightly against of those people are slightly for it. Of those 65%. And then we’re left 5%, okay? This 5% is pretty important.
Because that 5% doesn’t recognize what’s happening and they make the wrong analysis, will be destroyed. all lose in the end. And these 5%ers are usually loud in dissent. This is wrong. This isn’t okay. Something is off about this. Don’t you see it? And they kind of won’t shut up. And it makes the ones in the middle, ones who are kind of quiet, like they don’t really care. just want
people get along. Irritating to those people. They’re just like, oh my gosh, just be quiet so that these 30% that are really loud will be quiet. And the 30% at the bottom obviously makes them very angry. So you’ve got this 5%. If they get it right, if they have the correct analysis, they understand what’s going on, we’re talking collectively, they will most likely succeed. And been seen, again, historically where there’s been times when totalitarianism and dictatorship
almost took over. But there was this group of people that just wouldn’t shut up. And eventually it just kind of fizzled out. Like it just didn’t quite take hold. But the times that the five percenters stopped talking, or they got scared, or they went underground, then that’s when it took over. almost like we talked about hypnosis before. It’s almost like that five percent, just not being quiet, is just enough to break up
characteristics of, we’re going to go back to this first 30% that are very loud and very passionate about the idea.
Number one, they’re blind to everything that is against what the group believes in. Like they just tunnel vision. They can only see what they think is the agenda, the thing that they want to get, okay? That they think is important. Number two is very odd. They seem to lose any sense of personal interest. They’re willing to sacrifice everything for their societal goal and interest. So that’s very, very odd to me. And that was odd to Matthias too.
Number three is become radically intolerant of dissonant voices. This 30% group becomes radically intolerant of anyone who speaks out against them and in the last stage of mass formation they will seek to destroy everyone who is not going with the masses and they will do so as if it is ethically right and moral to do so. you
Think about the French Revolution, which was a total waste of life and time, and it didn’t accomplish anything. They went right back to where they were after, because and other people knew how to them back on track and take control. It was just a mess. You think of the Soviet Union, and It’s the same process every time.
the dictator or regime or the political party, it’s the people. It’s the people who move forward until someone sees the opportunity because of the conditions are in place, right? And take And again, you don’t necessarily need a dictator or someone to take this opportunity for this to happen. We’ve talked about that.
John (26:18)
Right.
that’s how someone can assume power even if that power is based on a lie. Alie to some people may be a collective to others. And that’s where you in both directions.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (26:37)
Mm.
John (26:48)
Again, I say the part of wisdom is learning how to recognize that happens, regardless of what side you’re on per se, or regardless of where your beliefs are and the wisdom to recognize it and think about it, question it. And then God for guidance because
In my point of view, in my belief, God is the ultimate truth. He speaks to us with love He can help guide you to what He wants to have happen, what the resolution should be. Even if you in God or if you have a different system, peace, which of these decisions will lead to peace?
Which decision leads to discord and anarchy?
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (27:34)
No, I want to clarify there because I think what you’re talking about is peace within yourself, correct?
John (27:39)
ultimately.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (27:39)
because a lot of people
say, well, I’m causing discord and anarchy by speaking out and making people angry.
John (27:42)
No.
Okay. Yeah. I see what you’re saying there. That’s a good point. within that leads to beneficial resolution to others. I, I guess that’s the easiest way to say it because I know not all solutions.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (28:00)
Well,
not becoming like them, like standing up for your beliefs, if you’re that 5%, doesn’t mean getting angry and telling other people they’re stupid. have to, if you want to have any effect at all, I mean, we’re all doing our best here, but you got to stay cool. You got to be kind. You’ve got to be loving even to those who are hateful and awful to you. And I think that’s where even if they’re angry, you spoke truth because, my goodness, Christ, Jesus Christ, when he…
John (28:10)
Right.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (28:28)
spoke truth to people. Some of them got very, very, very angry. And historically, especially you can read many times in the Book of Mormon where as soon as a prophet mentions the name Jesus Christ, people are so mad because the adversary hates truth. loves lies. And so he will stir people up. he’s got kind grip on maybe that’s you. all
John (28:46)
Right.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (28:53)
been there, we may be there now. I think we’re all there to some extent. We still have to lose grip on the lies, confront a lie that someone wants to believe, ⁓ they’ll grip it harder. Don’t tell me I have to let this go. How dare you! it’s, You can get… people can get really ugly, but that the ultimate end, I think, what you’re trying to say is that if…
individually and collectively over time, break through these barriers, break through the lies in ways that people are willing to receive eventually, that those people who were angry and vicious because they wanted to believe in the lie, once they are able and willing to let go, they will have that peace as well. Like there’s no peace in lies for anyone.
John (29:40)
Because you tell lies and that’s life, you become more and more isolated and instinctively that makes you more and more angry and spiteful and vulnerable, definitely vulnerable. One of
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (29:47)
Mm-hmm.
and vulnerable. Yeah.
John (29:58)
were a perfect example of the worst aspects of humans because they lied. They were one of the most fluent two-faced liars, and I say that honestly, that I have ever known.
And I’ve never known anyone that could lie as fluently as they do since. over the course of the five years that I knew them, just physically
began to fall apart. Their body and I’m like wow. I mean it was sad on one hand to see it happen but on the other hand it was truly fascinating to me at the time and that was a valuable lesson and I thank God for letting me see that lesson first hand of what happens and to know that I never want to see anyone go through that again because even if they don’t realize it
I have seen the end of the road for them and it’s not nice. It’s very, very… ugly. Very ugly.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (30:53)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So with that said, and we will too, John and I, think about how this might apply to the products you buy, to the food that you eat, to the prescriptions that you take, to the friends that you have, the doctors you go to, the way you feel about your sex and your body.
How might this apply to how you are living your life right now? And these are questions you could journal on, meditate But there have been times in my life when everyone around me was board with a certain action or behavior or thought process and I was sitting there going,
no, no, no, something’s off, something’s off, something’s wrong. But it was like I was watching this mass formation happen and I couldn’t stop it. And it was, it was shocking and saddening to me because a lot in a lot of cases, these are people that I loved and cared one time it happened when I was training to be a firefighter our had been made to feel by our mentors that we were the worst class ever.
and that we were just terrible students and that no one would ever hire us if we didn’t, buck up and figure things out. And there was some of that anxiety and frustration amongst the group and people started kind of separating, isolating and talking, amongst themselves. And eventually was collectively decided that it one girl’s fault in the class who was injured and she wasn’t able to
work out like the rest of us were. Which is crazy. Like, she wasn’t doing anything to the group would bring us down. It was she was doing and she could be responsible for her own actions. listened to people talk about her and I would say, well, that’s not right. Well, that’s silly. Like, what are you talking about? Like, this is… But then over time, it got to the point where they were bullying her.
was a where all of them surrounded her and her down and telling her how much it was her fault. And I was just going, ⁓ stop, stop. not stop group from her. Like not physically, emotionally. horrific to watch. And I remember talking to some guys afterwards.
about how was like were finding a victim to blame for our demise. And people will do this. They want someone to blame. And think about how that occurs with different demographic groups, with different countries, with people who maybe have a bias against because we grew up in a really poor neighborhood and a certain type of person was always stealing our stuff. And we grew up not to like that whole group of people.
John (33:38)
of the keys to really growing spiritually is to recognize to blame others our own failings or our own faults we all have that.
and recognize original sin really comes from because, God asks Eve, why did you eat of the fruit? Eve didn’t say, ⁓ it was my fault. No, she said the snake. He, made me do it. He convinced me. and then when he asked Adam Adam’s woman that you put here.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (34:03)
Right. It’s his fault.
It’s a woman.
John (34:11)
She made me do it.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (34:13)
It’s almost like he’s blaming God too, like you chose to put her here. Yeah, I never thought of
John (34:15)
Yeah, exactly. that was that was part of the
Yeah, was the problem. So that tendency blame others for mistakes that we’ve made is blame God. That is all part of original sin. And we all have that failing. It’s just part of our human nature. And we can talk to God about that someday.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (34:25)
Or blame God?
Yeah.
John (34:38)
then when you go, can it be overcome? And the answer is yes. So you have the two examples. You have Peter and Judas, they both denied Christ. Peter mistake that he made; that fault within himself, went to God and asked forgiveness.
Where Judas didn’t, he’s like, Oh no, it’s not my fault. And then he ended up hanging himself.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (35:02)
We don’t know a whole lot
about Judas. There’s a lot of assumptions we can make or conjectures, but someday like to be an ant on the wall to how that played out. The Chosen I’d like to see how they decide to play it out.
John (35:08)
Right.
Well, I know
I know through some of stories that I’ve heard from Saints and old Catholic teachings that did a lot more than what’s listed in the Bible they commented that Judas was a thief from the beginning. He was always money out of the for himself and
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (35:22)
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Hmm.
John (35:37)
was always trying to get him out of that, you know, he continued on even the bitter end. And when you recognize that you are responsible for your own mistakes and it’s okay. If you make a mistake.
Okay, you made a mistake. Just say, I’m sorry and try not to do it again and Yeah
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (35:56)
Stop justifying, it’s just hurting you. seriously, stop making
excuses, it doesn’t help you at all. Doesn’t help me when I do it.
John (36:03)
Stop Right
and stop trying to blame other your own faults and Listening to the world when it says all you have to believe a certain way. No, you don’t.
God said, you are to love one another. You don’t necessarily have to like each other, but I want you to love each other and to recognize, you know, everybody is different. Everybody has a different gift. It’s your own unique thing. Don’t covet what other people have and don’t make excuses for your own failings.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (36:36)
There’s a reason that’s a commandment. I think a lot of people kind of forget about that one. And how that might apply to societal trends and how we’re treating groups of people or how we approach certain belief systems that other people hold. It doesn’t have to be just stuff.
John (36:36)
and to recognize each
Yeah, it’s-
and
Right.
For instance, if like myself, I love strong musical background in my family. recognize I myself am not there. brother and my sister more talented musicians than I will ever be. And no matter how much I’ve tried, I just can’t quite get to that
same level and I recognize that. I mean, I can’t even hold a tune. It’s funny. People were like, why don’t you sing? Why don’t you sing? So I’ll start to sing and they’re like, ⁓ okay. Stop singing that. Wait, wait a minute. and I’m fine with that. I’ve gotten to the I enjoy other people’s gifts for what they
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (37:23)
Stop singing, stop singing please.
John (37:33)
At the same token, this was actually pointed out to be by principal at school. were having a conversation to accomplish she told me, she’s like, well, if I need something built, I go to the carpentry teacher. If I need some Mason work, I go to the masonry teacher. if I have a math problem or some calculations.
Then I come to you because that’s where you’re the expert. and she said that was one of the keys to becoming a good administrator was to recognize where people are strong and to rely on other people to recognize that. Yeah.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (38:06)
recognizing them. That’s a beautiful
leadership trait. That’s one that I think we can all do more of instead of look at me see and recognize of a better term. love the word validation, but people love to feel seen and validated. They just do. We all do.
John (38:26)
The key is to be seen for the right reasons, not because the world tells you, must have so many followers. You must have so much money. You must be in this position. You must buy this or buy that. That’s the world talking to you. I knew garbage collector. That’s all he did his life was he rode on a truck and collected garbage.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (38:30)
Mm-hmm.
John (38:50)
And he was extremely happy. He was a content person. Other people would look at him and go, that’s all you do; you’re at the bottom of society. like, no, I’m not. I collect garbage so other people don’t have to, I’m out in the open day. I’m not stuck in a building. Another one of my friends.
had a manufacturing job and he sat behind a machine and put a part together, the same part, repetitiously, every day, five days a week. would drive me utterly insane but for him, he’s like, why? this is fun. enjoy it.
I can focus. It gives me a chance to focus on something that my mind clears that’s relaxing.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (39:32)
Right.
Yeah. isn’t that interesting that we think of these like lesser jobs and better jobs and the jobs everybody wants. if you are tuned into your higher power, we would all be doing everything that we want and everything would be covered. Someone would come up with an amazing way to deliver
a certain item that would normally be really boring for someone to do but we would have such a more elevated society and all the needs would be met. trying to make sense of that, because it’s not something I think has ever been truly accomplished, but it’s best accomplished in a free society. It’s not perfect, but generally speaking, in a free society you have more of that going on, where people are free to do and try and be and…
missing link, I think, in our society right now is that tuning into God about what that should be because so many people are listening to the dissonant voices that aren’t really in their best favor or is a one fix for all. This is how it is. This is how it should be. And that’s just not the case.
John (40:22)
Right.
And if you look,
That’s a story of humanity. And if you study history, that’s always been the situation. For instance, when Jesus came in, Israel when it was founded and throughout the years, it was great. When Jesus arrived, Pharisees, the leadership had become corrupted the point, that they condemned innocent men to death.
you want to go one step higher look at the history of the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire started as a republic and they had a Senate equivalent and it was great until over time leadership and people in positions that began to fall and that’s really the
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (41:10)
But I think, again,
if you look real close, it probably came from the people. Like, discontent was sown. There were people that were lonely unhappy It just, over time, that grew from totalitarian mass formation. That’s usually how it starts. People like to think that it was some dictator or brainwashing, which may be some of that for sure, but has to come from the people or they couldn’t take over in the first place. You’d have to have enough people on board.
John (41:21)
Right.
Right. And another good example of that going back to the Roman empire, the Roman circus, the Colosseum, throw a game, throw a festival. Modern day. ⁓ let’s have a football game. let’s go to these mass events and keep people occupied, keep their minds off of what’s actually going on the scenes.
even a better example, the Olympics. If you look at some of these foreign countries that have really fallen, if they get the Olympics, they go in, they make it look all fancy, but behind the scenes, they’re hiding the unemployed, they’re hiding the homeless, they’re cleaning the So put on this big act;
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (42:00)
Mm-hmm.
John (42:19)
this big show to make it look like, look how great our country is, how great everything. And this is for you, the people of our land. And then the moment the Olympics are gone, everything just, okay, we go back to normal. It’s an illusion. It’s a lie. But people accept that.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (42:31)
Yeah.
People like shows. People like shows. They like to be entertained. I… They do. So I wanted to maybe end with some stuff from Alexander Sholtzeneitsyn. Did I say his name right? Solzeneitsyn? Solzeneitsyn? I don’t know. We’ll go with it. Or Russian. So he was a Russian author and Soviet dissident.
John (42:37)
Yeah, they do like entertainment.
I don’t know. I’m not an English teacher, so ⁓ I’m horrible with Russian. Yeah.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (43:02)
and he received the 1970 Nobel Peace Prize. Pretty cool. He said, live not by lies. The country was under the Soviet Union and he said something to the effect of that none of us can run under the square and denounce the government. They’ll haul us off. It won’t do us any good. But what we can do is refuse to capitulate to the system of lies.
He said our enemies and the enemies of truth have too much power for now for us to stand up to them directly, but that does not excuse us from behaving morally in the face of the lies that the system depends on for its existence. If people weren’t listening, they couldn’t rule. that’s just how it’s always been. explains that hard depends on the use of force, like police force, to compel people to pledge allegiance to it.
And again, this have originally come from the people themselves. Softer methods of totalitarianism only expects to pledge allegiance to it. And then says that it is the simple act a brave man to not participate in the lie, not to support false actions. And Alexander Solzhenitsyn’s
rule, his hard rule, was let the lie come into the world and even reign supreme, but not through me.
John (44:13)
That’s a great quote.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (44:14)
I would say that’s probably
the best quote ever. And so short and sweet.
John (44:19)
With what we’ve been talking about and the direction of society and the masses choose it and that’s correct but everybody listening remember it all begins with Avalanche caused by a single snowflake. Everything happens because of you.
If you stand up for the truth and you denounce the lie, that one voice will multiply. And that’s how society change. Focus on your life, focus on your little world, your little environment, do what you can. I can’t change
what’s happening in Washington DC. I can’t change what’s happening other countries. It’s impossible. It’s too big. The world is too big. Can I change who my friends are? Can I make a difference one homeless person? Can I make a difference to someone seeking truth? Yeah. it’s a domino effect.
Even Jesus when he came he had apostles then he had his disciples He didn’t talk to the entire world at once he talked to a few and from there it was a domino effect and Look where we’re at now two thousand years later. So even if the world tells you one thing
Even if you see the masses believing the lies going wrong direction, doesn’t mean you have to be radical or anything. Just be honest with yourself, question, and be truthful. Just focus, even if it’s just in your own personal life, that’s what counts because eventually that makes a difference.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (45:50)
Hmm.
Yeah, eventually is key. be that 5%. Be that 5%. Don’t be afraid to part of that 5%. And don’t stop talking. You don’t have to yell. Just don’t stop expressing. be the 65% nothing, that’s complacent. Don’t be 30% that’s screaming recognize when you’re there.
John (46:04)
and
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (46:21)
should say, because I think we’re all there sometimes. But recognize when you’re the one that’s been deceived and that’s yelling and screaming and you’re not feeling that peace. No question. ⁓ lastly, I want, I know I said lastly already, I was talking about the conditions that must be met of these lies to start propagating, taking over, in masses, with the loneliness and the isolation and the feelings of no purpose.
That is who we are talking to on this podcast, are the people who are struggling with depression who want to get out. If you are not willing to fight the lies and begin healing, you will be more subject and more influenced by these kinds of pushes and lies. You have to get to a place of more clarity, more peace. It’s not just about you, is what I’m saying. This fight for your mental health
The world is depending on it. The world is depending on you to be okay, to be sane, have peace, so that you can be the one fighting for the truth. In whatever way that looks like. It doesn’t have to be warrior mode! it could be quiet. It could be soft. But not complacent. Not numb. Not drugged up. Okay? what I’m trying to say. podcast…
I’m doing it. I’m not making any money. I’m spending money and time and energy. I’m exhausted sometimes doing it. I’m like, man, this is a lot of work. We need you to know that you are important. You are needed. And there is hope for you to recover. And not only that, but to affect the world in a massive way. Again, that snowflake, that is you. You have to start getting better.
We need you to, God needs you to, and it is possible. Start relying on God. Take the things you’re learning in this podcast and start picking and choosing those things that will work best for you.
John (48:10)
Well said.
that pretty much wraps it up.
Jennifer Stirling-Campbell (48:12)
So with that said, thank you, John, again, for being here with me today. I know you’re making a lot of sacrifices too, and I love and appreciate you. This was a really intense topic today. So for those of you who made it to the end, thank you. If you want to support this podcast, visit overcomedepressionpodcast.com. You can contact me, you can of the affiliate links that will help support, as well as the workbook, which I think is awesome.
Until next time, we will see you again on the Overcome Depression Podcast.
John (48:41)
Take care.
Legal Disclaimer: The author of imaqurius.com is not an attorney, medical professional, psychologist, psychiatrist, therapist, nutritionist, or dietitian. All social media, emails, podcasts, videos, live streams, text, dosages, outcomes, charts, graphics, photographs, images, advice, messages, forum postings, zoom or other video meetings, and any other material or publications on or associated with imaquarius.com is for informational purposes only. It is not intended to substitute for legal advice, nor for medical treatment, nor for diagnosis including (but not limited to) treating, curing, mitigating, or preventing any type of disease, medical condition, or emotional/psychological condition. Before beginning any type of natural, integrative, or conventional idea, process, treatment, or regimen, it is advisable to seek the advice of a licensed healthcare professional. No guarantees or warranties are expressed or implied. Any reliance on or application of any information or material provided by imaquarius.com or persons appearing on the [Site/program/email] at or through imaquarius.com or 3rd parties recommended by imaquarius.com is at the reader’s discretion and is his or her sole responsibility.
<!– End MailerLite Universal —>